GUESTS: Al Sharpton
BYLINE: Bill O'Reilly
O'REILLY: Thanks for staying with us. I'm Bill O'Reilly.
In the "Personal Story" Segment tonight, the latest NBC News/"Wall Street Journal" poll of Democrats and non-Democrats who say they will vote in a presidential Democratic primary shows that 25 percent will vote for Joseph Lieberman, 14 percent for John Kerry, 12 percent for Howard Dean, 11 percent for Richard Gephardt. And number eight on the list is Reverend Al Sharpton with 3 percent, all right.
With us now is the reverend.
Polls are dopey, and you can go from 3 percent to 30 percent in three weeks, and we all know that, although I did bet you your gold watch last time you were here that you're not going to win. But be that as it may, I respect anybody who runs and tries to get their message out, as long as they're honest.
Why do you think Howard Dean is getting the cover of "TIME" magazine and all this? What is it about Howard Dean that has captured the media's attention?
REV. AL SHARPTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think the media has flavors every month. I mean it was John Edwards during the first part of the year. Now Dean. It'll be somebody else.
The real polls are going to be in January when we begin. I mean the polls of Democrats have had us way ahead of people that have raised exceptional money. I'm ahead in most polls of Edwards and Graham of Democratic voters.
SHARPTON: The poll you just showed is Democrats and non-Democrats. The...
O'REILLY: But who will votewho will vote in the primaries. You cansee, you can vote in the primary if you're independent, but what is it about...
SHARPTON: In certain states.
O'REILLY: What is it about Dean, though.
SHARPTON: I think...
O'REILLY: Look, Gephardt's not getting any ink. Edwards is not getting any ink.
SHARPTON: Edwards got a lot of ink...
O'REILLY: In the beginning.
SHARPTON: ... and...
O'REILLY: ... but not now.
SHARPTON: Well, we'll see what happens down the road with Dean. I don't think this is something that concerns me. In mywhere I sit, I hope we all get a lot of ink because, as long as we all stay in the race, it certainly helps when we go into areas like the South and like urban centers and like the areas that have been ignored in...
O'REILLY: All right. So you're saying that New Hampshire and Iowa may not be your strong places.
SHARPTON: I don't think anybody thought they would be anyway.
O'REILLY: No, I certainly didn't.
SHARPTON: I think if you look at the polls in South Carolina, even the polls are saying I'm tied for two.
O'REILLY: All right. But you're really running as a racial candidate, and you've got to cross over at...
SHARPTON: No. Well, I could say that about them. I mean you're talking about people that arethat have an Internet-driven candidacy, which is clearly much more white than my candidacy is black. I could say they are...
O'REILLY: All right, but all candidates...
SHARPTON: ... running a racial candidacy.
O'REILLY: All right, but all candidates should be running to appeal to all people.
SHARPTON: Exactly. And I think it's kind of hard to run a candidacy of the dispossessed when the way you reach them is if they own a computer.
O'REILLY: And they don't. I got it.
SHARPTON: So I really think that's almost comical.
O'REILLY: But if you'rebut if you are only going to appeal to the dispossessed, you're going to be dispossessed real soon.
SHARPTON: But I think that if you only appeal to the dispossessed, you wouldn't be scoring at all in the polls. The fact is that you can score in polls that are being used with those on the Internet and the dispossessed are not there.
O'REILLY: Now I've gotI've got four issues that I want you to give me a cogent analysis on what you would do, all right? These four, I think, are the most important to the country right now.
First of all, the border situation with Mexico is out of control with narcotics and illegals coming across. How do you solve that?
SHARPTON: I think you first have to set up a partnership with the president of Mexico.
O'REILLY: But Mexico's a corrupt country.
SHARPTON: Well, II think that you have to set up a partnership there. I think that you can't do it...
O'REILLY: With a corrupt country?
SHARPTON: I think you can't do it without sitting down, even if it has to be tough love, and establishing with them that there must be some detention on both sides of the border.
O'REILLY: They're not going to do it.
SHARPTON: I don't agree that they won't do it. I don't think that we...
O'REILLY: Why should they?
SHARPTON: They should because I think...
O'REILLY: They're making tons of money.
SHARPTON: I think that we can sit down and put things on the table that would clearly be in their interest and our interest to protect the borders.
O'REILLY: All right.
SHARPTON: I think that clearly...
O'REILLY: You can reason with them down there?
SHARPTON: Oh, I think you can reason with them even if you have to use tough love.
O'REILLY: But what's tough love? What are you going to do?
SHARPTON: Well, I think you can tell them that we're not going to do certain things like we do.
O'REILLY: Like what?
SHARPTON: Well, we do certain trade with Mexico. We...
O'REILLY: We need their oil! We've got to trade with them.
SHARPTON: Of course we do.
O'REILLY: So, if we say we're not going to buy this product, they're going to say we're not going to be shipping the oil.
SHARPTON: No, I think what we must do is we must sit down, as we have done with other countries onin other areas, and have a real hands-on conversation with Vicente Fox.
O'REILLY: What about moving the troops to the border to stop all this chaos immediately?
SHARPTON: Again, even if you move the troops, you still have to have cooperation on the other side. I would...
O'REILLY: Yes, but you can stop it now.
SHARPTON: I would not be opposed to putting some presence at the border...
O'REILLY: What kind of presence?
SHARPTON: But I would only do that in conjunction with a serious conversation with...
O'REILLY: I don't mind a serious conversation, but you're never going to solve the problem unless you stabilize it, and now it's just chaos.
All right. Taxes. We talked about this briefly last time you were here. You are for a progressive tax system, taking all my money and giving it to the dispossessed, right?
SHARPTON: No, I'm for you paying your share.
O'REILLY: Which is what?
SHARPTON: I think that we have to have a share that all Americans pay, and, clearly, those that make...
O'REILLY: What's my share? I make lots of money. I makeI'm up in the 1 percentile.
O'REILLY: What do I pay?
SHARPTON: You should therefore...
SHARPTON: ... since you enjoy the country more, should be happy to give your share...
O'REILLY: All right.
SHARPTON: ... not try to form...
O'REILLY: How much? How much? What do you want?
SHARPTON: ... not try to form 3,000 offshore companies that...
O'REILLY: I don't have any offshore companies, all right.
SHARPTON: I think that a progressive tax...
O'REILLY: All right. What? Twentyyou want 75 percent of my money? You're getting 50...
SHARPTON: No, I don't want 75 percent.
O'REILLY: You're getting 50 now. What do you want?
SHARPTON: No, no. I'm not getting 50.
O'REILLY: You're getting 50.
SHARPTON: rMD+IT_rMDNM_I'm supposed to get 50. That is with loopholes and...
O'REILLY: I gotI don't have any loopholes. I pay.
SHARPTON: ... and dividend cuts...
O'REILLY: I pay everything.
SHARPTON: ... and real estand estate tax, you get way less than 50.
O'REILLY: No, I don't.
SHARPTON: I think if you paid your share...
O'REILLY: I do.
SHARPTON: ... we eliminate the estate tax, we eliminate these dividend tax, we eliminate these little curve balls...
O'REILLY: I'd like to eliminate the estate tax.
SHARPTON: ... that Bush has given you.
O'REILLY: But you're not going to put a figure on it for me, though?
SHARPTON: No, II would say 50 percent with no perks.
O'REILLY: No perks.
SHARPTON: I think the problem is that the...
O'REILLY: And that's state, local, or just to you, the feds?
SHARPTON: No, no, no, no. That'sthat's the feds.
O'REILLY: Just the feds. So the state and the localthey can hammer me for more.
SHARPTON: The state and the local have to deal with whatever the state and local reality is.
O'REILLY: Yes, that's right.
SHARPTON: You're dealing with state deficits now because by...
O'REILLY: So, by the time you all get through with me, I mean I'm one of the dispossessed. I'll be voting for you.
SHARPTON: No. First of all...
O'REILLY: I'll sell my computer.
SHARPTON: First of all, you should vote for me anyway, but I think that real question becomes why those that have the most want to have the loopholes to...
O'REILLY: Well, I don't like the loopholes either, but I think those who have the most, generally speaking, are those who work the hardest and invest in themselves.
SHARPTON: I don't agree with that. Many of them inherit money.
O'REILLY: I know. Well...
SHARPTON: Many of them get money by...
O'REILLY: I didn't inherit a dime here, Al.
SHARPTON: ... gambling or Wall Street.
O'REILLY: Al, I didn't gamble.
SHARPTON: I mean...
O'REILLY: I didn't do nothing.
SHARPTON: ... some of them work hard. But guess what? A lot of poor people that work for those people work harder and don't get any loopholes or money.
O'REILLY: OK, but they don't pay any income tax either.
SHARPTON: They pay...
O'REILLY: Fifty percent of all workers...
SHARPTON: Some of themsome of them pay a larger percentage...
O'REILLY: ... don't pay anything.
SHARPTON: ... of their income tax than...
O'REILLY: Yes. You bring them on in here.
SHARPTON: ... Enron did when it ducked a lot of their taxes going...
O'REILLY: Yes, I'mI'm with you on that. I'd hang those guys.
All right. Reparations...
SHARPTON: Keepkeep going.
O'REILLY: ... for slavery.
SHARPTON: You'll be voting for me soon. Go ahead.
O'REILLY: Listen now, you're ayou know, that's notthat's probably out of the question, but it could happen. Anything could happen.
All right. Reparations. How much do you want from me? I got my checkbook here. How much do you want?
SHARPTON: Clearly, I think that that's something...
O'REILLY: Tell me. I'll write a check. What do you want?
SHARPTON: I agreeI agree with Conyers' bill. We need to study it. It may not be a check. It may be in any form of repairing...
O'REILLY: You want me to take you on vacation? What do you want?
SHARPTON: Vacation wouldn't repair the damages that we...
O'REILLY: Sure it would. It would make you feel better.
SHARPTON: Absolutelywe're not talking about feeling good. We're talking about the gap between those blacks and other Americans that faced historic discrimination.
O'REILLY: All right. So it may not be a check.
SHARPTON: We're not talking about feeling good.
O'REILLY: That's encouraging.
All right. North Korea. What do you do?
SHARPTON: I think with North Korea we have to proceed with the United Nations with talking...
O'REILLY: United Nations?
SHARPTON: With the United Nations, with talking to allies, as we're talking now, and talking to China and others. I think we're doing in North Korea what we should have done in Iraq, and that is try to deal with it in a non-military way.
O'REILLY: Yes, but hehe was slaughtering people in Iraq. Don't you feel sorry about all those people buried in those graves?
SHARPTON: They're slaughtering people in Liberia, and all sides are asking for us to come in, and this president is not coming in. Why...
SHARPTON: Oh, but whywhy is he so reluctant to go to Liberia?
O'REILLY: I'll tell you. Do you want to know?
SHARPTON: If the issue is slaughter...
O'REILLY: Do you want to know?
SHARPTON: ... there's no worse slaughter in the world.
O'REILLY: Well, you just asked me. Do you want to know?
O'REILLY: OK. Because the perimeter isn't secure. He's not going to send troops in there and get shot at from both sides. You wouldn't either.
SHARPTON: Shot atI just left there. I was in Ghana. Shot at from allI met with every warring faction, and they all said we welcome them to come in.
O'REILLY: That's what they're saying, but...
SHARPTON: You have...
O'REILLY: ... there's no security there.
SHARPTON: You have troops on the ground now from...
O'REILLY: One word. Mogadishu.
SHARPTON: ... from Nigeria and other places.
O'REILLY: One word. Mogadishu.
SHARPTON: You have 2,000 Marines in the area. Why don't we send 500 of them in now...
O'REILLY: Look, they'll send...
SHARPTON: ... to be part of the peacekeeping?
O'REILLY: ... them in, but they want to send them in...
SHARPTON: By and by, when the morning comes, they'll send them in.
O'REILLY: All right. One last question.
SHARPTON: We didn't do that in Iraq.
O'REILLY: Somebody told me that the IRS is auditing you. Is that true?
SHARPTON: I get audited about every two or three years.
O'REILLY: So, right now, the auditthe IRS is on you?
SHARPTON: I don'tthere'sthere's an old audit, yes, but...
O'REILLY: You havenot a new one?
SHARPTON: No, not that I know of. It's continuing.
O'REILLY: All right.
SHARPTON: But I get audited all the time.
O'REILLY: Is that a political deal? You think they're after you?
SHARPTON: Probably. They audit me every two or three years.
O'REILLY: They used to do when Clintonaudit me, but now they haven't. So I don't know.
Look, Al Sharpton. You're welcome anytime to come on in.
SHARPTON: Thank you.
O'REILLY: It's always a pleasure to have you here. Thank you.
SHARPTON: Thank you.
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