Senate Appropriations Subcommittee on Homeland Security Holds Hearing on FY2004 Appropriations

FDCH TRANSCRIPTS
Congressional Hearings
Apr. 8, 2003

Senate Appropriations Subcommittee on Homeland Security Holds Hearing on FY2004 Appropriations

BYRD:

We're able to send a person to the moon and bring him back safely again, but we've never been able to perfect a good public address system.

So, this subcommittee has to find a proper balance. How do we make America safer without fundamentally changing the quality of a free society? How do we protect ourselves from a threat within our borders while protecting our privacy rights and our freedom to move about this great country? How do we invest the resources and organize our efforts to catch terrorists without throwing out the Constitution? How do we make sure that the agencies that have been merged into the new Department of Homeland Security and that have various specific missions unrelated to homeland security such as preventing and responding to natural disasters; have the resources to effectively accomplish those missions?

Over the last ten years, the Federal Emergency Management Agency has earned the reputation as the Federal Agency that extends help to Americans in their darkest hour. Time and again when Americans have been struck by hurricanes, when West Virginians have been struck by floods, and when Americans have been struck by earthquakes, FEMA has been the Federal Agency that was a firm shoulder that decisive victims could lean on.

That is not to say that FEMA's response has always been without problems, but in recent years, FEMA has been organized and has been very adept at helping the victims of natural emergencies.

I know a good many families and communities in West Virginia who look at FEMA and wonder where they would be, how they might have survived, without the aid of FEMA.

In your testimony today, please explain to the Subcommittee what you expect the impact will be of the merger of FEMA into the Department of Homeland Security.

Under the umbrella of the new Department of Homeland Security with so much emphasis on homeland security, can the recently created Emergency Preparedness and Response Directorate continue to provide the victims of natural disasters, natural disasters, with the same kind of rapid and organized assistance?

FEMA was formed in 1979 by merging into one agency, five agencies from existing federal departments and took 15 years for FEMA to work through organizational glitches and internal bickering at times.

I've been on this committee since FEMA was created and I don't want to see this very important agency go through more growing pains. While learning to prepare for and to respond to all hazards, the Emergency Preparedness and Response Directorate must not lose its capacity to respond effectively to natural disasters.

The Homeland Security Act places new responsibilities on your agency including program transfers from the FBI, Health and Human Services and the Commerce Department. It is this Subcommittee's job to ensure that you have adequate resources to maintain your past level of activity and to take on these new responsibilities.

I hope that in your testimony today you will address whether the President's budget provides the resources to address these new responsibilities without undermining your missions related to responding and preventing natural disasters.

I look forward to your testimony.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

BYRD:

You said that your current balance is about $44 million?

BROWN:

Yes, sir.

BYRD:

What is the amount that can be made available on a contingent basis? Have you made a request from OMB?

BROWN:

Yes, Senator, we've asked OMB to release the apportionment to get us back up to at least the $500 million level. We started that process in early February.

BYRD:

Given the fact that in an average month FEMA pays out $250 million from the Disaster Relief Fund, $544 million does not seem like enough to get you through the end of FY 2003. Will the President send up a supplemental funding request?

BROWN:

I don't know, sir, you'll have to ask him.

BYRD:

Well, why would I have to ask him?

BROWN:

I don't know whether the administration plans on submitting another supplemental request or not.

BYRD:

Well, don't give me a flippant response like that.

BROWN:

I'm not, Senator. I'm just saying I really don't know whether they're going to request one or not.

BYRD:

You don't have to say to me "you'll have to ask him". I know how to ask the President questions.

BROWN:

Yes, sir.

BYRD:

And I know how to ask agency heads questions. But, what will happen if you run out of money?

BROWN:

We will have to start delaying projects.

BYRD:

Recently the U.S. Fire Administration released a report that concluded that only 13 percent of fire departments are trained and equipped to deal with biological, chemical or radiological weapons.

Given this striking weakness in the ability of our first responders to respond to a known threat, I'm disappointed to see that the President's FY 2004 budget proposes to cut advance to fire departments from $745 million to $500 million.

I'm disappointed by the fact that the administration has continued to represent its $3.5 billion proposal for first responders as an adequate level when it, in fact, provides no more resources than that enacted in Fiscal Year 2003 for some of the programs.

Given that your agency identified the weakness in firefighting programs, do you believe that the President's request is adequate?

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

BYRD:

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

West Virginia has suffered immeasurably from flooding and other natural disasters. My home state is under a disaster declaration right now due to flooding.

The West Virginia Flood Prevention Task Force, which I convened, has identified strengthening the flood plain management program as the most effective way to stop vicious cycles of repetitive flooding in West Virginia.

One of the most important tools to flood plain management is to have accurate, up to date flood maps. Last year, Congress appropriated $150 million to the Flood Mapping Program at FEMA. This was the largest appropriation to the Flood Map Program in its history.

But, by your own estimates, it would cost $950 million to modernize all flood maps in the country. So it is important that these funds are targeted to the communities that are most at risk.

I believe that flood map modernization funds should be targeted to the most flood-prone communities and in the past, FEMA has administered the Flood Map Modernization Program by a population-based formula.

Can you tell the Subcommittee how you plan to administer the fiscal year 2003 in 2004 funds?

BROWN:

Yes, Senator, I can and I would say that I think the Task Force and the effort that your state is making is commendable. We wish we could get all states to recognize that if they could get together and start doing that kind of planning it would help us do our job even better.

We're currently doing the modernization on a strategy that's developed by a stakeholders meeting back in February 5th and 6th of this year. It is based on high population density, high growth areas, high-risk areas, but most importantly, history of repetitive loss claims and what the policy base is, plus the ability to leverage and cost share with the state and locals.

So, while population density is important, we're trying to, at the same time, weigh that against the high risk and high prone areas.

BYRD:

Are you saying that you'll be moving from a population- based formula for funding this program, you'll be moving away from that?

BROWN:

No, population was just one criterion now.

BYRD:

If West Virginia Flood Prevention Task Force concluded that 18 full time staff would be needed to properly implement flood plain management activities, but the state can only afford to pay for one full time staff, how would you ensure that you do not penalize states that desperately need flood mapping resources, but whose financial straights hinder their sophistication?

BROWN:

Because we want to look, Senator, at where the flood maps need to be done first, based on those different criteria and done the quickest and we're not going to penalize the state simply because they may not be, for example, like in North Carolina who has a very robust program, versus a state that can't afford to do a whole lot.

We want to do it where it's going to have the most effect in terms of getting the maps out the door.

BYRD:

Given West Virginia's history of flooding and how outdated the flood maps are, this is a very important program to the state.

The West Virginia Senate and the West Virginia House passed resolutions in January of 2003 calling on FEMA to expedite the process of updating West Virginia's flood insurance rate maps.

In the past, FEMA has used a population-based formula to distribute the flood mapping funds. That approach does not take risk into account. This hurts states like West Virginia, they're small in population, but they're a disproportionate risk of flood damage.

I understand that you intend to change the way the program is administered and take risk into account. Is that correct?

BROWN:

That's correct. Plus, I was just handed a note also, we increased the state funding for state flood plain management to $1 million in FY '02 and '03 so there should be additional resources coming for that purpose.

BYRD:

Very well. So, you do intend to take risk into account?

BROWN:

That's correct.

BYRD:

All right. Thank you. Mr. Chairman?

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

BYRD:

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I'd like to ask a question about the Emergency Food and Shelter Program. It has been well run, well managed by FEMA. Now that FEMA has moved to the new department, the President has proposed to move the program to the Department of Housing and Urban Development.

Could you state what the rationale from moving a program that has been effectively administered by FEMA to HUD?

BROWN:

The administration's position was that the Emergency Food and Shelter Program was really not quite in sync with the traditional role of FEMA and more appropriately belonged in Housing and Urban Development.

BYRD:

Now, Congress specifically chose to keep the program in FEMA in the FY 2003 (inaudible) Appropriations Bill and rejected the President's proposal to move the program to HUD. Are you committed to implementing the program in FY 2003?

BROWN:

Absolutely, Senator. And if it stays with FEMA we will continue to implement it. If it moves, we will do everything in our power to assist HUD in keeping that same high level standard of operations.

BYRD:

I hope that the program does not fall through the cracks of at the department. It's a popular program in our communities and it helps to address the growing crisis of homelessness.

I have one more comment and one more question, Mr. Chairman.

In the past the vast majority of FEMA's activities have been in preparation for and in response to natural disasters. FEMA is an all hazards agency. But, like many other federal agencies, since September 11th, FEMA has provided increased resources to responding to terrorist threats.

What steps are you taking within the new department to make sure that your new agency's ability to respond to natural disasters is not affected by its integration into the Department of Homeland Security?

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

BYRD:

Well, there's been a great deal of concern that state and local preparedness for natural disasters could be impacted adversely by the integration of FEMA into the new Homeland Security Department.

In my own case, I'm very conscious of the natural disasters that occur and occur so often. Coming from a mountains country as I do and having experienced so many times over these past 50 years, Mr. Chairman, responding to communities that have been stricken in those flood prone valleys and having responded by seeking appropriations for water resources projects, reservoirs and so on, on the Appropriations Committee, I and my constituents are very concerned about this.

The Homeland Security Act instructs FEMA to maintain its all hazards focus, but the threat of terrorism and the department's emphasize on it could overshadow the emphasis on natural disasters.

I must say that I've been comforted by the responses to my questions that have been given by Mr. Brown.

Now, you have not requested funding for the National Domestic Preparedness Office, the Domestic Emergency Support Teams, or for the Metropolitan Medical Response System, but your directorate is responsible for administering these. How will you pay for these?

BROWN:

We are currently going though a process of analyzing what is actually in the budgets of those particular programs in the other departments and seeing what we can get out of those departments to help fund those.

BYRD:

Will pre-disaster mitigation and disaster relief activities suffer in your judgment?

BROWN:

No, sir, they will not.

BYRD:

What makes you think that?

BROWN:

Because I think that the state and locals, one, recognize it, both pre-disaster and post-disaster mitigation are both viable programs. And either direction we go, pre-disaster or post-disaster, we can minimize the effects of disasters.

If we do it pre-disaster, we can do it based on our long standing understanding of where the risks are, of encouraging the states to come in with plans, with the best mitigation programs for their states for their risks.

If we do it post-disaster, we'll continue along with the same thing we've done in the past of going into a place where it's been hit hard, where there's the motivation to do mitigation programs. Either way we can make it work.

BYRD:

Thank you, Mr. Secretary. I want to help you if I can.

And I want to thank you, Mr. Chairman for having a good initial hearing. I think it's been a good one. You've been most fair and I appreciate the time you've allotted me to ask questions.