Hearing of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee

Federal News Service

HEADLINE: HEARING OF THE SENATE FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE
 
SUBJECT: RESOURCES FOR IRAQ RECONSTRUCTION
 
CHAIRED BY: SENATOR RICHARD LUGAR (R-IN)
 
LOCATION: 216 HART SENATE OFFICE BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C.

SEN. LINCOLN CHAFEE (R-RI): Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Welcome, gentlemen. As you can see, a lot of the questions here relate to the high cost of the war not only in resources but in human lives, of course. And I'd like to get at the key question of what we're really doing there.

And, of course, in the months leading up to the war it was a steady drum beat of weapons of mass destruction, weapons of mass destruction, weapons of mass destruction. And, Secretary Wolfowitz, in your almost hour-long testimony here this morning, once—only once did you mention weapons of mass destruction, and that was an ad lib. I don't think it's in any of your written testimony.

And so we're seeing shifting justifications, I think, for what we're doing there.

At a hearing in May, I asked Secretary Wolfowitz the question, a lot of your answer dealt with that it will help with the peace between the Israelis and the Palestinians. And now there's been allegations that this will help with our war on terrorism. But we just haven't seen the proof of any linkage between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda.

And now, today, it's—the testimony is over and over again about what a despicable tyrant Saddam Hussein is, who brutalizes people.

But at the same time, in Liberia, Charles Taylor has been indicated, and according to the prosecutor, he's responsible for the killing, raping and maiming of 500,000 people. And the arrest warrant issued by the U.N.-backed court in Sierra Leone charged Taylor with unlawful killing, sexual and physical violence, use of child labor and child soldiers, looting, burning and the murder of U.N. peacekeepers. And it also alleges that Taylor had a close alliance with the notorious, murderous Revolutionary United Front in Sierra Leone. The RUF was infamous for dismembering its victims, having a "cut-hand" unit to chop off limbs, and a "burn house" unit to torch houses of suspected opponents. And Taylor once had his 13-year-old daughter publicly flogged for misbehaving in school. At the same time, Human Rights Watch is saying that Charles Taylor is one of the single greatest causes of spreading wars in West Africa.

And so all the testimony this morning, and indeed, the submission of the op eds, is about what a tyrant Saddam Hussein is, who brutalizes the people. But we're doing nothing in Liberia.

So it comes back to the questions of the unified message coming from the administration as to what we're doing there, and why we didn't wait for the United Nations Security Council to do their inspections. Now we're in this endeavor, a huge cost not only in resources but in lives.

So I'll ask the question, Secretary Wolfowitz, give you a chance: What are we doing there?

MR. WOLFOWITZ: Senator Chafee, what we have done there is to remove a regime that was a threat to the United States. We've said all along, if you go back to Secretary Powell's presentation at the United Nations, all three of those concerns were stated very clearly: the concern about weapons of mass destruction; the concern about Saddam's links to terrorism, which are there, not as clear as the case on weapons of mass destruction --

SEN. CHAFEE: Secretary, just to interrupt. I'm a cynic, so when you make these assertions, give some proof. A threat to the United States. How?

MR. WOLFOWITZ: I suggest you go back and read—and if you want to give me an hour, we can have a different kind of hearing. But if you go back and read Secretary Powell's testimony, it is very clear. And it is the concern that the combination of weapons of mass destruction and terrorists poses the kind of threat which maybe 10 years ago we would have thought we could live with—and I would have said 10 years ago my whole view about Iraq would have been very different.

Ten years ago I would have said Iraq, as terrible as it is, is the problem of the Iraqi people. I said all along I believe we should have given those people more help in getting rid of that tyrant.

But September 11th put it in a different light, and taking on that tyrant forcefully meant in fact, if anything, that we had to take that threat more seriously.

So all three of those concerns are stated in Secretary Powell's testimony.

SEN. CHAFEE: Now --

MR. WOLFOWITZ: I talked about the mistreatment of the people --

SEN. CHAFEE: Can I interrupt one time? Let me interrupt, because my time is limited, unfortunately. You just said that this is—that 10 years ago you wouldn't have agreed to a regime change. However, in 1998, you, as a member of the New American Century, sent a letter to President Clinton --

MR. WOLFOWITZ: Senator, I said something different. I said --

SEN. CHAFEE: Look, now wait a sec. You were saying that we're seeing it in the light of September 11th. That's just not true. You've been advocating for regime change all through the late '90s. And in this letter, the --

MR. WOLFOWITZ: Can I explain? There's a very clear difference --

SEN. CHAFEE: -- "the strategy should aim, above all"—this is 1998 -- "the strategy should aim, above all, at the removal of Saddam Hussein's regime from power." You signed that letter.

MR. WOLFOWITZ: Senator, there's a very big difference. I was very clear—I don't know if it's in that letter, but elsewhere—I never thought before September 11th that we should use tens of thousands of American troops to do the job for the Iraqis. I never thought we should go to Baghdad, even at the end of Gulf War, when I thought we should have done some other things we didn't do. I thought, up until September 11th, that our job was to help the Iraqi people. I think the mistake we made in 1991 was they rose up against Saddam, and they got no help from us.

September 11th changed the stakes, in my view, for the United States and made it a different matter in terms of using American troops. The end is the same, but you're not distinguishing the means, and the means are absolutely crucial. Putting American troops' lives at stake is something that we do when our security is threatened. Our security was threatened. The troops out there, I think, understand that it is threatened. I think they understand that they're part of fighting the war on terrorism, as we go on today. And that is important.

And by the way, I agree with you. Charles Taylor is a monster, and we are trying, with the United Nations and with the West African states, to get a plan together that will get him out of Liberia. We also need to do it in a way that doesn't bring on yet another kind of slaughter, because the people going after Charles Taylor may not be an awful lot better than he is. And that's part of our problem there.

SEN. CHAFEE: Well, I'll just finish up by saying I really resent when witnesses talk that this is in the light of September 11th when the evidence is to the contrary. The -- (inaudible due to cross talk) --

MR. WOLFOWITZ: Senator, you're misrepresenting what I said in that letter.

SEN. CHAFEE: -- yes, you have over and over again, through the late '90s, urged regime change in Iraq.

MR. WOLFOWITZ: Can I try again, then, since you're—I believe you're not representing my views properly. It is true I thought, from the end of the Gulf War up until September 11th of 2001, that it was important for the United States to help Iraqis get rid of that regime. And that is a policy of regime change. But I did not believe that it was either necessary or justified to use large-scale American military forces to do that job. At the end of the Gulf War, all it would have taken was a minimum application of U.S. air power and some of the artillery that were sitting on the south bank of the Euphrates River.

September 11th changed the stakes for us, in my view, dramatically, and it changed the whole way of looking at an uncertain but still disturbing threat of the combination of weapons of mass destruction and terrorism.

SEN. CHAFEE: Well, I wish we had more time.

SEN. LUGAR: Thank you very much, Senator Chafee.