MSNBC Hardball - Transcript

MSNBC  

SHOW: HARDBALL

HEADLINE: HARDBALL For July 30, 2003

BYLINE: Chris Matthews; Campbell Brown

GUESTS: Frank Luntz; Norah O'donnell; Chuck Schumer; Maurice Sonnenberg; Chuck Pena; Ann Coulter; Christopher Hitchens

HIGHLIGHT:
HARDBALL debate: Is the U.S. doing enough to fight terrorism? In the "Political Buzz," Ann Coulter and Christopher Hitchens face off about Bush's Rose Garden press conference.

MATTHEWS: Joining me right now, New York Democratic Senator, Chuck Schumer. Mr. Schumer, what do you think is keeping the president from keeping this material redacted, secret from the public? What's causing him to do that?

SENATOR CHARLES SCHUMER (D)-NEW YORK: Well, you know, I have not read the 28 pages. I'm not on the intelligence committee. But, many people I have talked to have. They say there is no security reason to keep those pages out of the public eye. It's rather very damning and my guess is they're doing it to protect Saudi Arabia, period.

MATTHEWS: Well, why the Saudis out so publicly demanding or requesting that the material be made public that's being kept quiet by the White House?

SCHUMER: I wouldn't be surprised, if in this case, given the close relationship between the Saudi government and this administration that the Saudis said, we'll call for it, don't let it happen. I just spoke to one person tonight who had read it who said I sure wouldn't want to let this out if I were the Saudis.

MATTHEWS: Let me suggest to you another motive. Could it be that the president is concerned that there are, in fact, people who we're trying to nail that will be notified we're trying to nail them if he puts this information out?

SCHUMER: I think you can easily redact names and places. They've done that throughout the rest of the report. It's the fact that the whole 28 pages was there, and again, this administration has had a long, long history of playing footsy with the Saudis. The Saudis have had a long, long history of playing footsy with the terrorists. And I think that's bad for the safety of the people in the country. I would like to see the report replaced, A, so above all, so we know the truth; but B, so that the Saudi games stop once and for all.

MATTHEWS: Are you accusing—I'm not going to lead the witness here, Senator, but it seems like you're saying the president of the United States is knowingly covering up for the Saudis.

SCHUMER: Well, I don't know if it's the president, but this administration has covered up for the Saudis in the past. Other administrations have, too. It's no secret, for instance, that the Saudis have probably done more to aid and abet terrorism, al Qaeda, individual Saudis, groups of Saudis, companies of Saudis, and maybe even elements of the Saudi government than just about any other government with the exception of the Taliban, and we never put our foot down on them.

We are justifiably tough with Iran and we're tough with Syria and we're tough with Libya, the administration is, as they should be. But when it comes to the Saudis, they have a total soft spot. Something is going on here. I don't know if it is...

MATTHEWS: Well, isn't that soft spot our gas tanks?

SCHUMER: Well, it could be. But, I still say that is not the right thing to do. This president has been, and I've been generally supportive of him, strong on the war on terror. But when it comes to the Saudis, that strength just disappears, and that is the wrong thing to do. Saudis are going to have to sell their oil no matter what.

MATTHEWS: The president's very close as is the Bush family and his father before him and the entire family are very close to the Saudi royal family. Why are we close to a family that you say is working against our security?

SCHUMER: Well, it could be oil. There's been a long relationship between oil and the Saudis. I don't know the reason for that and I couldn't speculate. I can tell you this. We let the Saudis get away with things that we let no other nation get away with.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: But the motive is our economic necessity. Do you think we could operate as a country the way we do now with our current GDP, without the Saudi oil? Could we make it without them?

SCHUMER: No. But the Saudis aren't going to cut off the oil. The Saudi—the average Saudi income has gone from $20,000 to $7,000. This government is so unstable it can't afford to not to sell oil. It will lead to their downfall. And what...

MATTHEWS: You trust—sorry.

SCHUMER: I think we can gently or not so gently, but nudge the Saudis to finally decide which side of the fence are you on? Are you with the terrorists or are you with us?

MATTHEWS: OK.

SCHUMER: And right now they've been able to straddle it in large part because the administration has coddled them.

MATTHEWS: Well, here is your chance not to coddle. The president won't name names. Will you? Should we maintain good economic—or good diplomatic relationships with Prince Bandar, the longtime Saudi ambassador to the U.S. Should he still have his diplomatic privileges in this country or should he be determined to be persona non grata? Should we get tough with him that way?

SCHUMER: I don't know about Prince Bandar himself, because...

MATTHEWS: Well, he's their representative.

(CROSSTALK)

SCHUMER: Yes. That is one person. I am saying we ought to tell the Saudis—let me give you an example. These schools, the Saudis are still funding, right now as we speak, the schools that teach Muslims all over the world to—that it's right to kill the infidel...

MATTHEWS: OK.

SCHUMER: ... which means non-Muslims. That does us more harm than anything than just about anything else that any other country does. They did it post 9/11. They are doing it even after what happened in Riyadh. Enough.

MATTHEWS: Thank you. Thank you very much, Senator Charles Schumer of New York.