CNN The Situation Room - Transcript
CNN The Situation Room - Transcript
Tuesday, January 17, 2006
BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT
BLITZER: Now my exclusive interview with Senator John Kerry. He's in Jerusalem right now, and he's been getting a firsthand look at battlegrounds in the war on terror. But in response to my questioning, he's also been wading into political skirmishes right back here in the United States, siding with fellow Democrats against President Bush.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Senator Kerry, thank you for joining us. Welcome back to THE SITUATION ROOM, this time from Jerusalem. We've got a lot of ground to cover right now.
Let's talk first of all about your trip over the weekend to Pakistan. What did officials there tell you about this U.S. air strike that targeted the No. 2 al Qaeda leader, Ayman al-Zawahiri?
KERRY: Well, obviously, they were very concerned about the loss of life, as are we, of any innocent civilian. But on the other hand, they were also clear that it was their belief there were foreign intruders in that particular target area. So they understood what we were trying to accomplish, and I think they were trying very hard to make the best out of a bad situation.
BLITZER: Do you have any problem with the U.S. government targeting al Qaeda leaders for assassination in third countries?
KERRY: Well, first all, assassination is a questionable term, when you consider that we have been chasing these people and fundamentally at war with them since they attacked us in New York City on September 11.
And we have a joint agreement with the Pakistanis, thanks to their cooperation in that war, which is at some risk to them and to President Musharraf, for the ability to do what -- you know, hot pursuit, if you want to call it that.
There's a lot of thought that goes into that kind of targeting. There's a lot of intelligence work that is done by both sides as to what's happening, and I think that the record shows that it has not been indiscriminate. Does it have its risk? Of course it has its risks.
But nobody should underestimate the degree to which, in every country that I've been in, in the last week or so, from India to Pakistan to Afghanistan, to here in Israel, and I'm about to go Jordan and into Iraq, that the leaders of the countries are committed to eliminate the threats to not just to their governments but to all innocent people by those who have decided to kill innocent bystanders.
BLITZER: So you support this strategy that we saw dramatically unfold Friday with this attack against this target along the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan?
KERRY: If we have the proper intelligence, and it has gone through the proper channels, and we have followed our rules of engagement in decision-making with respect to that intelligence, and we have good reason on that intelligence to believe that there are members of al Qaeda or terrorists who are targeting the United States in that target, I absolutely support pulling the trigger, absolutely.
You know, this is not -- you know, this is not something for the faint of heart. We are in a situation where there are a group of jihadists who have no real ideology or goal politically, other than to simply kill us and kill other people, too, for that matter.
Now, does that mean that that's all there is to this effort? Let me be crystal clear. No. It is not going to be won or decided at the end of Predator trigger or a barrel of, you know, a soldier's gun, and I've said that many, many times. But where you have those people, where they are gearing up to engage in their dangerous activities, we have to do what we have to do to protect ourselves.
BLITZER: You're in Israel now. I assume you've met with the Israeli leadership, the acting prime minister, Ehud Olmert. What's it like now? I was there about 10 days ago when the prime minister, Ariel Sharon, had his stroke. What does it look like to you on the ground?
KERRY: Well, look, there's obviously, a heavy feeling in the hearts of all the people in Israel, and you can feel the sort of, you know, the dislocation that everybody is feeling in the normality of life in this country.
On the other hand, what I also feel is a great strength and resilience and commitment to go forward and an understanding of the course that they're on.
I was very struck in my meeting with the acting prime minister: very engaged, very clear. I think he's handled this situation with a great deal of grace and a great deal of sensitivity. And I think the people of Israel, likewise, have shown the strength of the democracy and the strength of their -- of their government here.
There will be elections the Palestinian Authority next week. Those will be very, very important in determining what the direction is going to be. And then there will be elections in Israel.
And yesterday, the acting prime minister was named the acting chairman of his new party, of the Kadima. And so I think things are moving along with a clear determination.
This is a country that, as you well know, Wolf, from your time here in just covering it, deals with shock and dislocation and loss of life and the challenges of the region on a daily basis. They're resilient, strong, and I think they're on a very clear course.
And I was heartened by it. I really came away with a sense that -- that despite the terrible situation with respect to Prime Minister Sharon, people are determined to move made and to make the most of whatever opportunities are presented in the days ahead.
BLITZER: Senator Kerry, as you well know, successive U.S. administrations have regarded Hamas as a terrorist organization. They're going to be running in these Palestinian elections on January 25. What happens if they win? What should the U.S. attitude be in dealing with Hamas, if they do well, as all the indications are they will do well in these Palestinian elections?
KERRY: Well, first of all, Hamas is not considered to be. It is. Hamas is a terrorist organization. And I was against, as a number of people were against, the notion that a terrorist organization ought to participate. But this is a Palestinian election. That decision has been made, and Israel has decided to move forward in that context.
So the real question now, frankly, and I met in Jericho this morning with people taking part in that election. The real question is what happens after the election?
If Hamas has a number of people elected, and it appears as if they will, then the question for them is how are they going to behave? What choices are they going to make, and what choices is Abu Abbas going to make?
Is he going to decide at that time to take them, on as he ought to, and change their constitution, and demand that, in order to participate in that government of legitimacy at that point, you recognize the right of Israel to exist and you give up violence? I mean, Wolf, you can't imagine sitting at a table governing with people who are negotiating the right of access through barriers, negotiating the movement of goods, and at the same time as they're negotiating with you about that in a legitimate government, supposedly, they're blowing up people in buses or restaurants in Tel Aviv or in Jerusalem.
That's an unacceptable contradiction. And so I think you're reaching a moment of very real choice for whatever the form of Palestinian government that is going to emerge from these elections.
BLITZER: You're in a country right now, Israel, that a neighbor, Iran, under its new president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, would like to see wiped off the face of the earth. "Wiped off the map," in his words.
And they're now, according to U.S. and European authorities, moving towards developing a nuclear bomb, even though they denied that.
Senator John McCain, your colleague, said on television over the weekend here, he said this: "There's only one thing worse than the United States exercising a military option against Iran. That is a nuclear-armed Iran. Now, military option is the last option but cannot be taken off the table."
What is your thought on a potential military option against Iran?
KERRY: Well, first of all, you never take a military option off the table anywhere, under any circumstances. So it's on the table.
But I think anybody who studied the situation understands, as I think John McCain said in the comment that he's making, it is an option that requires an extraordinary level of commitment with long- term repercussions. And it is truly an option of last resort, and I think people understand that.
Look, the more important thing is that, you know, Ahmadinejad's the Iranian president's comments are absolutely stunning in the 21st Century, and almost equally as stunning, in my mind, was the lack of universal condemnation across the globe. There were people who commented, but -- but it is really shocking to have a leader of any country under any circumstances in the 21st Century after all that we've been through and learned, to have them talking about wiping an entire people off the face of the earth.
So through those statements and through their own actions, Iran has taken its own steps to make itself a significant renegade, outlaw nation at this particular moment of time.
The question for all of us is how to diffuse and deal with the situation that you don't want to have to get to the last resort about. I think there are number of options available us to.
In each country that I visited, the leaders, from Prime Minister Singh in India to President Musharraf in Pakistan, President Karzai in Afghanistan, the acting prime minister here, all of them have said how unacceptable it is for Iran to behave the way it is and to move in the direction it is.
But I do think that Russia, at this point, could play a critical roll. And my hope is that before we get to the United Nations, before we reach the point of sanctions, which they must understand, that we are going to be united on and they are going to be serious, sanctions of real consequence, to have the kind of effect that we had on South Africa, if that is what it comes to.
But before that, I think there are still possibilities that Russia might be able to play a very important role here. And my hope is that President Putin and Russia will step up and do that.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Coming up, more of my interview with John Kerry. He weighs in on Al Gore's charge that President Bush broke the law and is putting the U.S. Constitution at risk. And he's got choice words to say about Hillary Clinton's attack on Mr. Bush, as well. More of this exclusive interview, that's coming up next.
You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
Three powerful politicians pitting themselves against President Bush: senators John Kerry and Hillary Clinton and former Vice President Al Gore.
In my exclusive interview with Senator Kerry, I pressed him on his fellow Democrats' new and fierce attacks on the Bush administration.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Listen to what the former vice president, Al Gore, said yesterday on the president's authorization of these secret wiretaps by the National Security Agency without warrants, court warrants.
Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORE: What we do know about this pervasive wiretapping virtually compels the conclusion that the president of the United States has been breaking the law, repeatedly, and insistently.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: You agree with him?
KERRY: Yes.
BLITZER: So what does that mean, if the president is breaking the law? KERRY: Definitively, definitively.
BLITZER: What's the -- what's the remedy?
KERRY: Well, the president, first of all, with respect to breaking the law, the law that we passed clearly envisioned -- I mean, the reason we created it, congressional intent could not be more clear here.
We created a court. We gave that court the power on moment's notice, set up only for the purpose of approving these warrants, to able to review them in order to protect the constitutional rights of Americans, particularly with the view to what happens when you don't do that. That's No. 1.
No. 2, out of 16,700, I think, warrants that have been issued, only four have been refused in that entire period of time.
And finally, nothing in the law that the administration has pointed to, which the Congress passed to respond to 9/11, where we authorize the use of force, nothing contemplated this kind of constitutional violation.
So it is a clear violation of the law.
Now, you know, there are any number of different recourses that could be taken. With a Republican Congress, we've had a particularly hard time getting any legitimate recourse taken under almost any circumstances, because we don't have the power to issue subpoenas, we don't have the power to call hearings.
So I think we have to continue to present this issue to the American people, and I hope the administration will, of its own -- of its own admission and its own steps reverse course, admit the mistake, and try to guarantee that the protections put in place are adhered to.
BLITZER: Senator Specter says he will hold hearings on this next month as chairman of the judiciary committee.
KERRY: I've heard that, and I hope the hearings are going to be fully bipartisan, that the appropriate people will be called on a bipartisan basis, the Democrats will have the right to have equal numbers of witnesses and that subpoenas, if necessary, will be issued as appropriate without the chairman having the right to veto them.
BLITZER: I want to also get your comment on what Senator Hillary Clinton said yesterday in going after the Bush administration. Listen to her pointed remarks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: I predict to you that this administration will go down in history as one of the worst that has ever governed our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Do you agree with her on that?
KERRY: Boy, you're throwing at me -- you're throwing every domestic comment of attack on the administration while I'm over here trying to figure out what's going on, I guess.
I think this administration is one of the most derelict in responsibility in history, sure. I don't disagree with her. I mean, almost every single issue of importance, with a completely apolitical point of view.
Look at health care in America. What's their plan? They have no plan. Look at General Motors and Ford that are facing the potential of bankruptcy and the loss of jobs overseas. What is the plan? They're not even engaged in major discussions to figure out how we move forward.
Look at what's happened to investment and research and development and technology and science and all of the things that create the jobs of the future. We're going backwards.
The promise of No Child Left Behind has been left behind. The environment. We are literally going backwards.
I mean, I'm not going to run the gamut and the list here.
BLITZER: Right.
KERRY: But the bottom line is that we are not as safe in the world as we ought to be, and we are not facing up to our responsibilities at home as we ought to be, and I think history will be a harsh judge of those realities.
BLITZER: We have 10 seconds left. Do you want to tell our viewers how you're going to vote on the Samuel Alito nomination?
KERRY: No, not from here, and not without having a chance to review the -- the hearings fully. But I will be back in a couple of days, and intend to do that as soon as I get back.
BLITZER: Thanks so much, Senator Kerry, for joining us. Have a safe trip. We hope to catch up with you from Iraq later in the week. We'll see you back in Washington. Be safe over there. Appreciate it very much.
KERRY: Thank you. Thanks a lot, Wolf. Take care.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0601/17/sitroom.01.html