MSNBC The Situation - Transcript
MSNBC The Situation - Transcript
Friday, August 5, 2005
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CARLSON: Welcome back.
It's been a while since a book by a politician has received as much attention as Senator Rick Santorum's latest, entitled "It Takes a Family." The book is a broadside against the effects of liberalism on the American family, among other things. Not surprisingly, it has Santorum's political enemies outraged. It has also fueled speculation that the Pennsylvania Republican is running not simply for reelection in 2006, but for the White House two years later.
Joining me now, Senator Rick Santorum.
Thanks a lot, Senator, for coming on.
SEN. RICK SANTORUM ®, PENNSYLVANIA: Thank you, Tucker. Good to be with you.
CARLSON: Thanks.
Now, we were just talking about the news that emerged recently that-that Judge Roberts, now up for the Supreme Court slot, worked pro bono on behalf of gay rights. What was the first thing you thought when you heard that?
SANTORUM: What I thought is that, you know, when you work as a lawyer, you take a lot of clients and you do a lot of things for a lot of different reasons. And he may have agreed with that argument. He may have done it because his firm asked him to do it.
There are a whole lot of reasons that lawyers take cases. You know, I try to look at-at-at his record as a judge, look at what he-what he-what he has at least told me, look at his writings. And I feel very comfortable with him.
CARLSON: You don't think there's any-I mean, there's such a long history of Republicans nominating Supreme Court justices who turn out to be not just liberal, but assertively liberal.
SANTORUM: There's a long history, but not-in my opinion, there's a long history when-when presidents don't take their time or they don't take their-the nomination process seriously.
George Bush understands the consequences of this nomination. This isn't his dad, who just sort of passed off the process to-to-to his chief of staff and said, find somebody. This is something that the president campaigned on. This is something the president cares deeply about. This is something that the president, I know, has spent an enormous amount of his own personal time on, as well as his staff. He isn't going to make a mistake.
CARLSON: So, you're pretty sure that Judge Roberts is opposed to Roe v. Wade?
SANTORUM: I'm pretty sure that Judge Roberts will be a judge who understands the role of the judiciary and the checks and balances and the balance of power.
He will understand-he used a term that I have never heard a judge, any-anybody coming in for a judgeship use. And that's the word modesty and humility when it comes to the court. That is-from the legislator's point of view, those are music-that's music to my ears. That means...
CARLSON: Well, from...
(CROSSTALK)
SANTORUM: ... I understand-I understand the role of the court.
CARLSON: From the citizen's point of view, it's pretty appealing, too, I have to say.
Now, in the-in the-in the publicity-and you have received a lot-surrounding your book, there's been the allegation that you heap scorn upon mothers who work. Explain to me your position on working mothers. Is it wrong for women to-with kids to work outside the home?
(CROSSTALK)
SANTORUM: No, it's not wrong for mothers to work outside the home.
What I basically said is-and I think very clearly said-is that, you know, being a mother and being a father are the most important jobs that you have, if you're a parent, and that we should at least honor motherhood and fatherhood, as much as we honor people who do radio talk shows or do-or are senators or doctors or anything else.
And-and we don't. And I-I just think that's wrong. And I think we-in a culture that is throwing more at our children, more things that are harmful to our children, that we actually need to spend more time parenting, not less. And all I've said is that those who can should-should reexamine to see if they can spend more time when kids, you know, need to be parented and times when they're home without parents. That's all.
And that doesn't mean mothers or fathers-in fact, I was very neutral in the book on that. All I said is, this is an important job, probably more important than when I-you and I were being raised. And it's something that our society desperately needs, is more time at home with our kids.
And, by the way, most mothers and fathers would tell you they want more time at home, too.
CARLSON: Yes. That's absolutely right.
SANTORUM: And I lay out a lot of things that-that the government can do and society can do to make it easier on parents.
CARLSON: Well, one issue that you talk about in your book and you talk about in public quite a bit, embryonic stem cell research, it's a complicated issue. Even people who are adamantly opposed to abortion find it hard to get their minds around this.
Give me not the long explanation. Give me the shortest possible explanation for why it's wrong.
SANTORUM: It's taking of a human life. That's about it.
CARLSON: But this is-I mean, this is a human life that most people don't recognize as a human life..
SANTORUM: Well, I...
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Because it exists in a petri dish.
SANTORUM: Well, you know, a human life is at the moment of conception. It's genetically human. And it is alive. So, it is a human life by definition.
And we've had this legal construct under the-under Roe v. Wade that says, just because you're genetically human and you're alive doesn't make you a person under the Constitution and therefore, we can do whatever we want.
Remember, what we're talking about here is federal funding of this. We're not talking about whether it can be done or not. Anybody in America today can go out just take one of these embryos from an IVF clinic and destroy it, kill it and do research on it, right now. The only thing they can't do is get federal funds to do it.
CARLSON: Well...
SANTORUM: In my mind, that is a fairly small limitation on a very unethical practice.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Why keep-why keep-then why keep the limitation that small. I mean, if it's taking of a life, why not make it illegal?
SANTORUM: Because I-just the same reason that we have legalized abortion, but we don't fund abortions, because we believe-this is an area where the federal government and state governments have decided, most of them, have decided that they're not going to have taxpayer dollars, which a very sizable percentage of them don't agree with the morality of this situation, that we're not going to use their tax dollars or any tax dollars to fund this activity.
CARLSON: All right, one-one of your-finally, one of your former staffers I read described you not simply as a politician and a policy man, but as something of a Catholic missionary.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: Do you think that's right? And do you see yourself that way? What does that mean?
SANTORUM: No, I-well, I-well, first off, I don't know what it means. He's a former staffer. And I underline former, number one.
And, number two, you know, I see myself as someone who tries to do the best job I can for the people of my state and try to be accountable. That's why I wrote a book a year-and-a-half before maybe the toughest election of my career, because I think it's important-more important today than ever for politicians to come forward and say what they believe, why they believe it and be accountable to the people that they represent.
CARLSON: What about the election after that? If you were to lose reelection in '06, would you-could you still run for president?
SANTORUM: Oh, well, I'm not worried about that. I'm worried about running for reelection in '06. I'm-I'm running for the majority whip position, the number two position in the-in the United States Senate. You know, that's-those are two-two-two races. That's plenty for me.
CARLSON: All right.
Senator Rick Santorum, one of the most articulate members of the Senate, one of my favorite, thanks a lot for joining us. Appreciate it.
SANTORUM: Thank you, Tucker.
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