CNN Inside Politics - Transcript
CNN Inside Politics - Transcript
Wednesday, July 27, 2005
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SYLVESTER: As we have reported, President Bush was on Capitol Hill this morning to rally support for the Central American Free Trade Agreement.
And with me now to talk about CAFTA, as it's known, are two Republicans on opposite sides of the issue. Congressman Clay Shaw of Florida supports the trade deal. Congressman Walter Jones of North Carolina opposes the agreement.
Our first question for you, Representative Shaw. As we just mentioned, President Bush was on the Hill talking about CAFTA and House Majority Leader Tom DeLay is predicting a win tonight. How do you get there, though, from where -- if you only have six to 12 Democrats, a handful of Democrats voting for it and a number of Republicans against it?
REP. CLAY SHAW, (R) FLORIDA: Well, there's a lot of Democrats that are kind of hiding their vote at this time, so hopefully we'll grow that total. And hopefully we'll get some of our good friends like Walter here to take another look at the issue. It's a win-win for America. And it's simply imposing fair trade where right now there's one-way free trade coming into the United States.
We want to level the playing field and have a fair trade and get those tariff barriers down going into Central America. So it's good for America, and I think the president made a very good -- a very good pitch this morning. And it was very passionate pitch, as I'm sure my friend Walter here will agree.
SYLVESTER: Representative Jones, do you agree? Do you think they actually do have the votes to pass CAFTA? That there are some hidden Democratic votes out there?
REP. WALTER JONES (R), NORTH CAROLINA: Well, Clay Shaw is one of my dearest friends and a man I have great respect for. We feel pretty confident right now -- obviously at 3:40 in the afternoon or 3:50, this could change tonight by 7:00 or 8:00. We think we have at least 25 to 28 hard no votes on the Republican side. The Democrats are telling me that they only feel like they will lose between eight and 10. If those numbers hold true, then we think we're in great shape, defeating this CAFTA, going back to the negotiating table.
SYLVESTER: Representative Shaw, you know, I've heard the argument -- in fact, you just described the argument that's been made repeatedly, that CAFTA will level the playing field, that it will increase exports to Central America. But if you look at NAFTA, those exact same arguments were made then and instead what we've seen are tens-of-thousands of jobs -- American jobs that have been lost. The trade deficit has ballooned. Why would anyone expect that CAFTA would be different?
SHAW: Well, don't lose sight of the fact right now the tariff barriers coming into the United States are already down. Plus, Central America is not that large a piece of the trading situation. I think like 13 percent of our exports go into Central America.
So, it's not that huge, but I think this goes beyond just simply trade. I was here during the Reagan administration and at that time, we had terrible problems down in Central America. We had -- the communists were running half the show down there. We had dictatorships. We had revolutions.
Now they've settled down. They're looking north to us. They all have democracies, even though they have a lot of poverty down there, still, which this bill would certainly address, they still -- I think, the future of Central America could very well hinge on this important agreement. And the future of Central America and being pro-American, that is United States American, is very important to our national security. So, this thing has legs that are much longer than just simple trade.
JONES: Lisa, could I speak to that?
SYLVESTER: Yes. I was just going to ask you to weigh in, Representative Jones. I'm sure you have some comments on this.
JONES: Well, let me share with you -- I have a letter signed by seven elected officials from Honduras, Guatemala, El Salvador, Nicaragua and just one sentence I want to share with you in this letter. It was written to all members of Congress, by the way and it says, "CAFTA will only lead to more social instability in the region as more medium and small farmers will lose their livelihood and become part of the poor population numbers." They're asking us to vote against this. Go back to the negotiating table and do what is right for the Central American workers and also the American workers. In my state of North Carolina, since NAFTA, we lost over 200,000 jobs and in this country alone, we lost 2.5 million jobs.
SYLVESTER: Congressman Shaw, the administration has made it very clear that this is a top priority. And it hasn't been shy at all about asking representatives: What will it take to sweeten the pot? What will it take to secure their vote, even though as we just heard, there have been thousands of -- tens-of-thousands, in fact, of jobs lost. It puts representative in quite the quandary. Now, why not just try to pass CAFTA on its own merits?
SHAW: Well, first of all I would dispute the figures as to the loss of jobs. That is a bogus argument. Even though there are some jobs that have gone to Mexico, I think that as far as the economy of the United States, NAFTA has not been a -- has not been a negative.
But just look at it this way, you've got right now, about American apparel, up to 23 percent tariff on goods going from the United States into Central America; up to 16 percent on textiles. Plastics, rubber, I can go right down the line and talk about the tremendous amount of tariffs that the United States manufactures are having to cope with in getting their goods into Central America.
Agriculture -- This thing is huge. You mentioned the poor farmers -- or my friend here, Mr. Jones, mentioned the poor farmers. Obviously there's always some people that are going to be alarmed by free trade. They're no longer going to be protected by a lot of tariffs. But the majority of the people in Central America will certainly profit by this. The trade preferences to Central America go away at the end of 2006 and at that point, also, perhaps the cut-and- show sew shops, the investment and guess who -- where it will go? It will go to China.
SYLVESTER: Well, I've got -- let me just interrupt you there for a moment. Congressman Jones, I want you to comment, because we're running out of time. But first, quickly, on the jobs issue, because it sounded like you wanted to say something and then your thoughts on the Pentagon announcing that it wants to start bringing troops back by next spring or summer.
JONES: Well, I -- The only thing I want to say to my friend, Mr. Shaw, is my numbers about North Carolina and the effect of NAFTA are absolutely correct, because I've checked with the state of North Carolina numerous times and it is in my state 200,000 jobs have been lost due directly to NAFTA.
As you know, I did put in this resolution along with three other members of Congress. It's not a date certain. What we're asking the president to do is to establish a plan. I think the fact that we have started that discussion of HR-55. The fact the president, after we put the legislation in, was in North Carolina my home state twice. I'm glad to see that they're looking at the possibility of downsizing our troops in Iraq. SYLVESTER: Congressmen, thank you very much for joining us and we'll have to see how this debate shapes up tonight on CAFTA. I know it's going to be a long night for everyone.
SHAW: And I might add that these countries that we're talking about have been supporting us in Iraq and that's important.
SYLVESTER: All right. You get the last word in there. All right. Thank you very much, gentlemen. We look forward to having you on again.
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