NBC News " Meet The Press" - Transcript : Huckabee On South Carolina State Flag
Interview
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CHUCK TODD:
Republican presidential candidate Mike Huckabee is the former governor of Arkansas and, of course, a former Baptist minister. And he joins me now. Governor Huckabee, welcome back to Meet the Press.
FMR. GOV MIKE HUCKABEE:
Thank you, Chuck. Great to be here.
CHUCK TODD:
Before I get to that topic and the intermingling of religion and government, let me start on a couple of Charleston things in South Carolina and get your reaction. The flag debate is something you were a part of back in 2008. I want to play what you said when you last ran for president when the issue came up during the South Carolina primary.
MIKE HUCKABEE (ON TAPE):
You don't like people from outside the state coming down and telling you what to do with your flag. In fact, if somebody came to Arkansas and told us what to do with our flag, we'd tell them where to put the pole. That's what we'd do.
CHUCK TODD:
Governor, how do you feel this morning?
FMR. GOV MIKE HUCKABEE:
I still feel like it's not an issue for a person running for president. Here's what I think the question underlying all of this is: We're asking, "Is South Carolina a racist state because of the flag that flies on their Capitol grounds?" Here's what I can tell you as a frequent visitor to South Carolina.
This is a state that largely white people elected a female governor of Indian descent and the first ever African American United States senator from the South. They have more diversity in the people that they have elected to statewide office than New York, Connecticut, or Massachusetts. There's 4.8 million people in South Carolina.
I don't think you could say that the presence of one lunatic racist who everybody in this country feels contempt for and no one is defending is somehow evidence of the people of South Carolina. I think we've seen the people of South Carolina and their character by what you saw in Charleston with people of all races, Democrats, Republicans from every perspective hugging, praying. Nobody was burning down their community. They weren't breaking windows. They weren't beating up on cops. They were exhibiting a true Christian spirit that really is, I think, exemplary to the rest of the country.
CHUCK TODD:
I guess the question is: Should government be sanctioning a symbol that a large chunk of residents believe is a symbol of racism?
FMR. GOV MIKE HUCKABEE:
Well, it depends on which level of government. If the state government of South Carolina wishes to address an issue in their state, that's fine. But, Chuck, if you can point me to an article and section of the Constitution in which a United States president ought to weigh in on what states use as symbols, then please refresh my memory on that. But for those of us running for president, everyone's being baited with this question as if somehow that has anything to do whatsoever with running for president. And my position is: It most certainly does not. If you--
CHUCK TODD:
Would you ever fly the flag--
FMR. GOV MIKE HUCKABEE:
People want their president to be focused on the economy, keeping America safe, some really big issues for the nation, I don't think they want us to weigh in on every little issue in all 50 states that might be an important issue to the people of those states but it's not on the desk of the president.
CHUCK TODD:
Well, let me just ask you this personally. Are you comfortable displaying the Confederate battle flag in public?
FMR. GOV MIKE HUCKABEE:
I don't personally display it anywhere. So it's not an issue for me. And so that's an issue for the people of South Carolina. Do you display it? I doubt it. Does anyone on your panel display it? I doubt it. For us, it's not an issue.
CHUCK TODD:
Let me move on to this larger debate about race relations in America. If you were president of the United States today and you have this racially motivated massacre that took place in Charleston. But we've had some social unrest as well, this trust issue between African Americans and law enforcement officials. How would you be addressing this today if you were president?
FMR. GOV MIKE HUCKABEE:
I think the best way to address it is the way that we have seen from the church members there at Emanuel AME Church. If you look at the pastor, the pastor who was murdered, it occurs to me that here is a shepherd who laid down his life for his sheep. A great example of biblical love, of Christian spirit.
And when you hear the family members as we heard on that very powerful interview earlier, it reminds us that Christianity is not this cartoonish, contemptible, laughable faith that people today try to marginalize. It is a powerful force of healing and reconciliation.
And while I know there are many people in our culture who don't want people to bring faith into the discussion, Chuck, after watching that family and seeing the members of this church in court the other day, I would say that most Americans stand back in awe and maybe would understand that it is precisely faith that would help this country have true racial reconciliation.
Let me just add this personally. When I was a young pastor in my 20's, I stood in front of what had been an all-white church. This was well over 30 years ago. And I welcomed the first African American member to that church. I had death threats. There were people who said they would leave the church.
But instead, I held my ground. I said, "If he goes, I go." The result was our church grew exponentially. And even though people said that they would cut off their giving, the very next month we had a record level of giving in that church. Sometimes it just takes courage to stand up and call out something to be evil and to express that the reason it's evil because it is a defiance and a defilement of God's grace.
And we've seen God's grace in the Emanuel AME Church and its members. A great testimony to the leadership of that pastor who instilled such a faith in his members that when they were faced with the greatest crisis of their experience, they reflected all that he had taught them. That I believe is the greatest witness we can hope for.
CHUCK TODD:
Let me go to the question that I introduced this topic on. And that is what the Pope said about climate change. And what's interesting is the way he based his position on climate change is actually very similar to the way you have based your position in the past.
And you have said this back in 2007. "Whether there is or there isn't," when it comes to climate change, "It doesn't release us from the responsibility to be good stewards of the environment. It's a spiritual issue. The earth belongs to God. I have no right to destroy it." It sounds like you agree with the Pope, sort of a faith-based focus on dealing with climate change. Do you still believe that?
FMR. GOV MIKE HUCKABEE:
Well, I've always believed that the earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof. I believe that I'm not the owner of the natural resources. I'm just a manager, a steward. I get to use them, but I don't get to abuse them. I think what the Pope has done is to help us to start talking about our stewardship.
But let me be very clear. I think one of the ways that we would really help a lot of people is to use the energy that we have until we develop energy that right now is not that economically viable. I also would say to the Pope if we could get the prices of energy down and make it more affordable, the difference between $5 a gallon gasoline and $2 a gallon gasoline is a pay raise to a single mom strapping a couple of kids into car seats, taking them to daycare, and then on her way to work.
Lower energy prices means that 84-year-old woman in south Arkansas can turn her air conditioning on in the hottest day of 100° sweltering August sun. And so those are real, true moral and economic issues for a lot of people. So our goal is not just to say, "Let's not use the resources." Let's use them in a way that empowers people to live the best life they can possibly live.
CHUCK TODD:
Okay, I understand that. But go to the key point of climate change. A) Do you believe it's man-made? And B) do you think that if you're elected president, this has to be on your agenda?
FMR. GOV MIKE HUCKABEE:
Whether it's man-made or not, I know that when I was in college I was being taught that if we didn't act very quickly, that we were going to entering a global freezing. And, you know, go back and look at the covers of Time and Newsweek from the early '70s. And we were told that if we didn't do something by 1980, we'd be popsicles.
Now we're told that we're all burning up. Science is not as settled on that as it is on some things. I find it interesting. The Left has completely embraced the Pope's message on climate change. But the Pope in that very same encyclical talked about the science of life and that there's no justification for taking the life of an innocent person when we know that the science is settled on the biology of the human life coming into being at the point of conception.
So let's embrace all of the Pope's message. And I'm waiting for the folks on the left who love this part about climate change. I'm waiting for them to also agree with him on the sanctity of every human life and that there's no such thing as an unwanted, disposable, or expendable human being.
CHUCK TODD:
All right. So if president, climate change is not in your top of your agenda? Just to--
FMR. GOV MIKE HUCKABEE:
Well, climate change is maybe the wrong question. Good, stable energy prices and making America an exporter of energy not just for economic reasons but quite frankly to disrupt the balance of power with Russia, Iran, and the Saudis. This is a game changer. And America needs to be using the resources that it has, use them responsibly, but for heaven's sakes use them to empower Americans, help poverty, and also change the global balance.
CHUCK TODD:
All right, governor. I got to leave it there. We had a lengthy conversation obviously about the horrific news of the past week. I hope to have you on again. We can talk taxes, spending, foreign policy, a lot of other things. It's a long campaign. Be safe on the trail, sir.
FMR. GOV MIKE HUCKABEE:
Yes, it is.
CHUCK TODD:
Okay.
FMR. GOV MIKE HUCKABEE:
Thank you very much, Chuck.
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