CNN "The Situation Room" - Transcript: Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard on ISIS

Interview

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BLITZER: It's going to take a while for sure. Let's hope it stays quiet.

Clarissa, thanks very much.

Joining us now, Democratic Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard of Hawaii. She's a member of both the House Armed Services and the Foreign Affairs Committee. She's also an Iraq war veteran.

When you hear ISIS threatening the next attack would be right here in Washington, D.C., is that a credible threat, or are they just sort of boasting?

REP. TULSI GABBARD (D), ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: I think after we look at what just happened in Paris, we've got to be very proactive to make sure that no city in the United States is the next target for an ISIS or al Qaeda-style attack. You know, I think as we watch this manhunt going on across Europe, I'm reminded of a vulnerability and a weakness that must be addressed.

We've got a visa waiver program that really does not address the vulnerability of the open and porous borders between Syria and Turkey. That we've seen already how many foreign fighters from across -- excuse me -- from across Europe are able to travel through those borders and are not being tracked and are not being -- they're not able to be addressed before going through that.

So, we need to temporarily suspend this visa waiver program until the intelligence community gets a handle on this. And exactly how large it is and what's going on.

BLITZER: So, what you're suggesting French citizens or Belgium citizens right now, they don't need to get a special visa if they want to come to the United States as tourists, for example. There's a visa waiver program, as you say. You say they should be required to get visa?

GABBARD: They should be required to go through the normal visa application process so that we can thoroughly vet exactly who's trying to come into the United States, because as it is now, really it could be a matter of hours before someone travels through these different borders, someone who's become a foreign fighter, who's been fighting in Syria and ends up here on the United States soil presenting a potential threat.

BLITZER: Because these terrorists in Paris, these suicide bombers, they were either French citizens, or Belgium citizens, European citizens. What you're concerned about is they could get on a plane and fly to the United States.

GABBARD: That's exactly my concern. And with -- again, with the open and porous border between Syria and Turkey and the lack of tracking from people who are coming through those borders and going from Turkey and to other European countries, especially with the thousands and thousands of foreign fighters that we're seeing from all across Europe, this is something that we've got to address immediately.

[17:10:17] BLITZER: Because if the United States imposes these kinds of visa restrictions on French or other European citizens, those countries are going to do the same thing to U.S. citizens who want to travel there. And that's going to cause a disruption in movement, in trade, business, stuff like that. You've heard those arguments.

GABBARD: I've heard those concerns, but our first and foremost concern needs to be keeping the American people safe. You want to talk about the effect on the economy if these actions are not taken, and an attack is allowed to occur here, even though we've identified this vulnerability, that is not something that anyone wants to deal with.

So, we've got to recognize the potential threat, the weaknesses that exist there and shore up those weaknesses so we don't allow something like that to occur.

BLITZER: The CIA Director John Brennan, a very important speech today in Q&A, he said that there are more ISIS attacks, in his words, in the pipeline right now. And they might be attempting to come here to the United States. That's your concern.

But he also said something very alarming. He said U.S. intelligence right now is strained. That's a pretty alarming statement.

GABBARD: It is alarming. And there are limitations to what the intelligence community can do. This is why it's so important for those in the intelligence community to be using the resources that they have to focus on those credible threats -- focus on those who have these potential links, who have been identified as potential threats to the United States rather than going through these bulk gathering of data on every single American, gathering information on all of our phone calls, that's a waste of resources.

And it really puts way too much information out there when they should be really calling that information in a very narrow fashion that's targeted on those who present a potential threat.

BLITZER: The ring leader in this particular case, Abdelhamid Abaaoud, is believed to have been involved in that foiled Brussels attack last winter. But he managed to elude intelligence law enforcement in Europe and Belgium and elsewhere. He may be in Syria for all we know right now.

So, was there a major intelligence blunder in Europe?

GABBARD: I think this is exactly what we've got to look at as we learn more information about this and why I remain concerned about the open avenues of travel that people have between Europe and the United States as we deal with this very specific situation and the lack of accountability really on the intelligence communities on both sides on exactly who these foreign fighters are, where they are and what they're doing.

BLITZER: The president of the United States spoke at length about all of this today, outlining his own strategy.

Standby for a moment. I want to continue our conversation with Tulsi Gabbard.

Much more right after this quick break.

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[17:17:37] BLITZER: We're talking with Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard.

But, first, after huddling with other world leaders in the wake of the Paris terror attacks, President Obama is now strongly defending his strategy for combating ISIS and he's slamming GOP critics who say he would slam the door -- who say he should slam the door on refugees.

Our senior White House correspondent Jim Acosta is traveling with the president.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, at a news conference wrapping up the G20 Summit, President Obama said the war on ISIS has entered a new more aggressive phase after the Paris attacks. He also defended his strategy for defeating the terror group, a battle plan that has once again come under withering criticism.

(voice-over): On the defensive but staying the course. President Obama responded to the attacks in Paris determined to keep and expand his plan to defeat ISIS.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There will be an intensification of the strategy that we put forward, but the strategy that we are putting forward is the strategy that ultimately is going to work. But as I said from the start, it's going to take time.

ACOSTA: The president responded to critics who insist he's not fighting hard enough to destroy the terrorist army, arguing those detractors are proposing what he's already doing.

OBAMA: Folks want to pop off and have opinions about what they think they would do, present a specific plan.

ACOSTA: But Mr. Obama brushed off calls to pour thousands of U.S. troops into Iraq and Syria saying that would only repeat past mistakes. The president was visibly annoyed that his strategy was even questioned.

(on camera): Why can't we take out these bastards?

OBAMA: Well, Jim, I just -- I just spent the last three questions answering that very question. We can retake territory. And as long as we leave our troops there, we can hold it. But that does not solve the underlying problem of eliminating the dynamics that are producing these kinds of violent extremist groups.

ACOSTA (voice-over): The president also defended the assessment he made just days before the attacks in France, that ISIS had been contained, maintaining the terrorist army has lost ground. He denied that he misjudged ISIS from the start despite once describing the group as the jayvee team.

OBAMA: There has been acute awareness on the part of my administration from the start that they would have the capabilities to potentially strike in the West.

[17:20:00] ACOSTA: The president also weighed in on the discovery that at least one of the Paris attackers had posed as a Syrian refugee, insisting that the U.S. should not keep out those trying to flee ISIS.

OBAMA: Many of these refugees are the victims of terrorism themselves. That's what they're fleeing. Slamming the door in their faces would be a betrayal of our values.

ACOSTA: Without mentioning his critics by name, Mr. Obama snapped at Jeb Bush and Ted Cruz, who urged a focus on aiding Christian migrants.

OBAMA: When I hear folks say that -- well, maybe we should just admit the Christians but not the Muslims, we don't have religious tests to our compassion.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What's the most responsible way to do that --

ACOSTA: President also noted Marco Rubio and another GOP contender called for halt to Syrian migrants to the U.S. is the son of Cuban refugees.

OBAMA: When some of the folks themselves come from families who benefitted from protection when they were fleeing political persecution -- that's shameful.

ACOSTA: Time and again, the president promised the White House, along with the U.S. intelligence community, is working urgently to thwart every possible threat to the homeland.

OBAMA: We'll do what's required to keep the American people safe.

ACOSTA (on camera): From the G20 Summit, the president next heads to Asia where his planned agenda will pull him away from the war on ISIS, even if that fight will likely overshadow the rest of his trip, Wolf.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Jim Acosta reporting for us, thank you.

We're back with Democratic Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard of Hawaii. She's a member of the House Armed Services and Foreign Affairs Committee, also an Iraq war veteran.

You say leave President Bashar al Assad in power right now. The U.S. has other more urgent business in fighting ISIS in Syria. But listen to what the president said on that today. Listen to this, Congresswoman.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: And there are still disagreements between the parties, including most critically over the fate of Bashar Assad, who we do not believe has a role in Syria's future because of his brutal rule, his war against the Syrian people is the primary root cause of this crisis. What is different this time and what gives us some degree of hope is that as I said, for the first time all the major countries on all sides of the Syrian conflict agree on a process that is needed to end this war.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right. Congresswoman, has he convinced you that you got to get rid of Bashar al Assad?

GABBARD: The cause of this humanitarian crisis, the cause of these refugees, the cause of the chaos on the ground in Syria is the fact that the United States, Saudi Arabia, Turkey and these other countries have been arming these forces and waging this war to overthrow the Syrian government of Assad.

This illegal war, it's counterproductive. It has only worked over the years as we're seeing now today to strengthen our enemy, strengthen ISIS, strengthen al Qaeda as it's helped them obtain their objective, move closer to their objective.

BLITZER: So, what do you want the president to do?

GABBARD: Number one, number one priority, stop this illegal counterproductive war to overthrow the government of Assad.

BLITZER: You say it's illegal. Why is it illegal?

GABBARD: It's illegal because Congress has not -- the American people have not declared war against this sovereign Syrian government of Assad. It's counterproductive because it is working towards the exact same objective that ISIS, al Qaeda and these other Islamic extremist groups are trying to achieve.

If they achieve that, they will regain -- excuse me, they will have all of that territory under their command. And it will present a greater humanitarian threat to the region, as well as a greater threat to the world. We need to stop the illegal war and focus one pointedly on our enemy, focus one pointedly on ISIS, al Qaeda, these Islamic extremist who is have just conducted this horrific attack in Paris and who pose a threat to the region and civilization as a whole.

BLITZER: As part of their new propaganda video, ISIS, that they released today they also had this warning to the United States. Let me play this clip. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ISIS (through translator): We chose boxes of ammunition and not boxes of elections, and we decided to negotiate with you in the trenches and not in the hotels.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: They also warned as we reported earlier they're coming after Washington, D.C. next.

So, specifically in terms of sending U.S. troops into Syria to fight ISIS and to Iraq for that matter, but specifically Syria -- you're ready for the president to send U.S. troops in there?

GABBARD: Absolutely not. I think it would be counterproductive to our goal, our mission, which is to defeat ISIS and al Qaeda. To do that, it would play directly --

BLITZER: So how do you fight ISIS?

GABBARD: We're working with our partners on the ground, using our air assets as we have seen successfully in a few different instances in both Iraq and Syria, adequately and appropriately arm the Kurds for example with the heavy weapons and the equipment they need.

Even with all of their gains and the effective fights they've had on the ground against ISIS, the United States is still failing to give them the equipment and the adequate support that they need to really be able to deal those decisive blows. We need to be able to do more of that working with partners on the ground in order to defeat ISIS.

[17:25:03] BLITZER: You want the U.S. to start supplying heavy weapons to the Kurds, for example, the Peshmerga, directly, right?

GABBARD: Absolutely. There's no reason why the United States should continue the failed policy of upholding this Shia-led government in Baghdad when you've got the Kurds and you've got the Sunni tribes who continue to be disenfranchised and completely shutout and not empowered in any way.

BLITZER: France is stepping up its air strikes. They're using bases in the United Arab Emirates in Jordan. Britain doesn't even do any air strikes. The UAE, Jordan, some of the other friendly Arab countries, they used to do airstrikes. They've stopped doing air strikes right now.

It seems there's a bit of diminished allied involvement in the struggle against ISIS.

GABBARD: And I'll tell you why, because people are being distracted

by this mission to overthrow the Syrian government of Assad. And the United States unfortunately is playing right into that. If the United States leads and sets the tone, saying ISIS and al Qaeda, these people are a threat to us all, gather our partners, gather people who are serious about this fight and gather those resources and have a strategy to effectively do it.

It's being diminished and diluted right now by this regime change mission that should not occur. We need to stop that illegal war and not make the same mistakes that have been made in the past.

BLITZER: Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard, thanks very much for coming in.

GABBARD: Thanks, Wolf. Aloha.

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