CNN "The Situation Room" - Transcript: Military Strategy in Syria and Iraq

Interview

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SCIUTTO: Breaking now, the defense secretary saying only 60 Syrian rebels have been trained by the U.S. to fight ISIS, 60 out of an original goal of up to 5,000 per year.

I'm joined now by Republican Congressman Adam Kinzinger of Illinois. He served in the Air Force in both Iraq and Afghanistan.

It's good to have you on the show. Thanks, Adam.

REP. ADAM KINZINGER (R), ILLINOIS: Thanks, Jim. Thanks.

SCIUTTO: So, you heard from the defense secretary today, saying only 60 Syrian fighters trained so far. The original goal was 5,400 in a year, then reduced to 3,000 by the end of this year. Is this program anything else but a failure in your view?

KINZINGER: It seems like that so far. We voted on this. I guess it seems like a year ago. It was probably about eight or nine months ago. It was controversial out here on Capitol Hill. We passed this idea of training the moderate Syrian rebels, which there are moderate years Syrian rebels in Syria that both want to destroy Bashar al-Assad, what is an evil, brutal dictator, and also want to destroy ISIS, because that doesn't represent the country that they want to live in.

To hear that it's 60, I will be honest with you, I had to read that a number of times. It blew me away. That's basically a couple of platoons of men. And that's not going to be -- without saying, that is not going to be enough to destroy ISIS or even probably hold a small village of 100 people from ISIS.

SCIUTTO: Yes, 1 percent of the original annual goal.

But one of the issue you raise there -- and this is what we hear from the Defense Department -- is that a lot of the recruits, they don't want to fight ISIS. They want to fight Assad. So, they have got a fundamental difference of the ultimate goal of who they're fighting and who the enemy is.

KINZINGER: Yes, I think there's some truth to that.

I think, when it comes to having a moderate opposition, the key is going to be holding territory. In some cases, that may be holding territory from Assad forces or holding territory from ISIS forces. The purpose is to take back the country of Syria.

And you know, look, you can't say that these folks that were raised -- let's say you're 30 years old. Your dad may have been killed by Bashar al-Assad. Your family has been brutalized by him. No Western power is going to come in and say, yes, but you can't fight him. The only people you can fight are the people that we are an enemy with.

Look, they hate ISIS. Trust me: they don't like ISIS. But they also don't like Bashar al-Assad, who is the incubator of this problem in the first place.

SCIUTTO: Let me ask you this, though, because the president reiterates that it has to be local ground forces in Iraq. The Kurds, Syrian rebels who have taken hold of territory. Frankly, that's not working, because we don't see that in Iraq. The maps look largely the same. There's been some progress in the northern part of Syria by local Kurds there.

But in your view, since the local forces, and train and equip is not delivering results, do you believe you have to put more U.S. troops on the ground to lead the way?

KINZINGER: Well, I don't think we need U.S. troops to occupy territory. What I have said, and this is part of what I did in Iraq when I was involved with, was Special Forces. And what we saw in Syria that we celebrated, you know, it was a big victory for us. Special Forces that can go in and take out key figures, get their info, go out and take ten, you know, that that guy led to, and ten that they led to. So being involved in that decapitation process of ISIS in Syria is important.

But when it comes to holding ground, even Arab forces can't hold all the ground in Syria. You think about Jordan, for instance. Jordan is the size of Illinois without the city of Chicago. Six million people. So the idea that Jordan can move their troops in, for instance, and occupy Syria is not -- it's not realistic. So you have to have a moderate rebel force, and 60 of them just ain't going to cut it.

SCIUTTO: The new buzz word from the administration on this fight seems to be patience. Strategic patience. It's going to take time.

But we heard General Dempsey today, the chairman of the joint chiefs, conceding in his words that being patient on ISIS could actually increase the risk from ISIS on the U.S. homeland. Well, what is your reaction to that? That's a remarkable concession to a group that the president acknowledged is a direct threat to the U.S. KINZINGER: Well, look, it's absolutely true. I mean, the

president has got to lay out and say, "Look, we have to destroy this group." So not only, you know, in the medium term, they're planning attacks, probably, against local governments, as we've seen. Probably against some American assets in that area. But in the long term they definitely want to strike the American homeland. We know al Qaeda does, and there's an affiliation there.

Look, at the end of the day, this is something that's going to have to be destroyed, and it's going to have to be dealt with. Because every day that goes by that ISIS occupies territory, the recruiting from that territory, they're killing people, which we see all too tragically. And they're digging in. They're putting their IEDs out, and they're putting their roadside bombs, and they're developing a form of governance.

Now obviously, we think of government, we think of water towers and roads. ISIS thinks of brutal Sharia law. It's like how the Taliban ran Afghanistan. They weren't building schools. They weren't building water towers. But they stayed in until an outside force came in and kicked them out.

SCIUTTO: Congressman Kinzinger, an Iraq and Afghan War vet, thanks very much for joining us from the Hill.

KINZINGER: Thanks, Jim. You bet.

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