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BLITZER: What a nightmare that would be. All right, Pamela, thank you.
Let's get some more on what is going on with Democratic Congressman John Garamendi of California. He's a member of the House Armed Services Committee.
Congressman, thanks very much for joining us.
What can you tell us about this smuggling potentially trying to develop some sort of dirty bomb?
REP. JOHN GARAMENDI (D), CALIFORNIA: Well, this has been an ongoing concern of the United States and Russia.
They're at risk, as is the United States and Europe. Following the breakup of the Soviet Union, there was a great concern about this. The United States government spent a lot of money over a lot of years to try to secure the nuclear materials.
That is an ongoing issue. In fact, we just finished a hearing not more than a half-an-hour ago on this very subject of plutonium. Russia has 34 metric tons of it. We have it. We're in the process of trying to destroy that unused plutonium. We're talking about the heart of a thermonuclear weapon here.
Ongoing issue, big concern in Congress among many of us that we need to continue to put the money up to do these kind of efforts to understand what is going on, to secure the borders. There has been an effort under way.
[18:10:03]
Fortunately, it was taken out of the Defense Authorization Act. There was a major effort in the House of Representatives to reduce the money to secure the borders.
BLITZER: How close has ISIS or any other terror group, for that matter, ever come to getting radioactive material, nuclear material to build that so-called dirty bomb which could be so destructive?
GARAMENDI: Well, there is very many different kinds of radioactive material that could go into it.
Some of it is in hospitals. If you take some of the materials that is in hospitals here or hospitals around the world, you can manufacture at least a small dirty bomb. I suppose if you got a lot of it, it would be bigger. It is an ongoing concern everywhere it is possible.
The big sources of this are the radio -- the reactors, the nuclear reactors, the material, the spent nuclear fuel, all troublesome. Is it possible to get it? Yes, it is radioactive and difficult to transport.
BLITZER: Do they have the expertise to build a dirty bomb?
GARAMENDI: You get the material, you surround it by other kinds
of explosives, put it in a suitcase, now you got a dirty bomb. It's fairly simple.
BLITZER: It's not that complicated.
Stand by for a moment. I want to continue our conversation, including what Russia is doing right now in Syria. You heard about that close encounter between those two U.S. fighter jets a Russian warplane, too close for comfort.
GARAMENDI: Yes.
BLITZER: We will take a quick break -- much more right after this.
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BLITZER: We're following the breaking news.
For the first time, U.S. pilots forced to divert over Syria because of a Russian fighter jet that flew way too close to the American planes. Way too close for the Pentagon's desires. The two F-16s were in Northeastern Syria attempting to bomb an ISIS target when the incident occurred.
We're back with Democratic Congressman John Garamendi of California. He is a member of the House Armed Services Committee.
A lot of people are worried about this kind of miscalculation. How likely would this kind of disaster, could this disaster be?
GARAMENDI: I think it is highly likely.
We have to sit down with Russia. They have to sit down with us and we have to have a conversation about how we're going to conduct each other's operations in this area. Obviously, we're not on the same page, not on the same page with regard to Assad and certainly not on the same page with conducting a war. You have got to coordinate, and that means you have got to sit down, you have got to talk this out.
BLITZER: But the Russians want intelligence, if they will cooperate with you, but you have got to share information where various groups are. The U.S. says, we're not going to share that intelligence with the Russians because we know what they want. They want to prop up Bashar al-Assad and go after those U.S.-backed rebels.
GARAMENDI: Well, that is part of the problem. But that has to be talked through, because, as you know just from this incident, there is going to be something really bad happening out there, airlines colliding. Others kinds of thing will happen. And we need to have that conversation about the airspace, who is doing what, when and how.
That has to take place. And if that means we have got to sit down with a big bottle of vodka to get it done, then get it done.
BLITZER: Because most of the Russian airstrikes have nothing to do with ISIS. They're going after these U.S.-backed rebels, who are going after Bashar al-Assad.
GARAMENDI: That is certainly correct. And what is Russia's reasons for being there? Prop up Assad? Yes. Going after ISIS? Maybe. We're certainly going after ISIS. Is there a common goal here? ISIS? Then let's work on that.
It's going to be tough, but we have to talk about. Otherwise, there are going to be some very serious accidents or incidents, and then where does that go along to when you start that ball rolling down the hill? And who knows where it's going to go?
BLITZER: Do you support a U.S. no-fly zone over Syria?
GARAMENDI: Northern Syria, yes, next to the border of Turkey. That would make a lot of sense to do that. And we ought to make that part of the discussions with Russia.
They say no, but, listen, we have refugees all over the place. We have got a serious humanitarian problem. It would make sense to have that no-fly zone in that area, a safe haven.
BLITZER: Let's talk about what is going on in Afghanistan right now.
The U.S. blew up a Doctors Without Borders medical facility, killing a lot of people, patients, doctors, staffers, others, as you well know. There's now some reports out there that three months or so ago, Afghan troops raided that facility, because they had indication that Doctors Without Borders, this excellent international medical group, was actually treating Taliban fighters who came in for medical attention. They didn't like that.
Have you heard that report?
GARAMENDI: Yes, I have certainly read that report. It's been out in the news.
It is a very serious breach. Doctors Without Borders is a wonderful humanitarian organization. They don't care what side you're on. They're there to take care of the individual, the human being. And that is how it ought to be.
We will find out more about this. This ought to be a full, open, fully transparent discussion and investigation. We can't hide anything here, because clearly the United States participated in this action. Who was responsible? What led up to it? All of those things must be thoroughly investigated and the world needs to know.
BLITZER: As you know, the president, President Obama, today did an extraordinary thing. He called the head of Doctors Without Borders to formally apologize on behalf of the United States, point out that NATO, the U.S., the Afghan government, they're all going to have their separate investigations right now.
That was not good enough for Doctors Without Borders. They welcomed the phone call, but they also said they want an international, impartial, outside U.N.-type investigation to find out what happened.
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Should the U.S. cooperate with that type of international investigation?
GARAMENDI: We should. It's our reputation at stake. We're an open country.
What are we hiding here? Are we hiding a mistake? That would be a serious problem. Get it out there. Obviously, there was a serious mistake made. Who is responsible? Who is to bear the burden of the responsibility? How far up the chain of command does it go?
The world needs to know. If we're going to be successful anywhere in the Middle East and anywhere around the world, we have to be open and transparent.
BLITZER: Today, get this. It is hard to believe. It marks the exact 14th anniversary since the start of the U.S. war in Afghanistan. It was October 7, 2001. I remember it vividly.
I was anchoring my Sunday show at the time, "LATE EDITION." We went back and we got the clip of when we first got word that U.S. airstrikes in Afghanistan had started about a month after 9/11. Listen to this.
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BLITZER: Senator Edwards, I want to alert our viewers out there that we're told that the White House press secretary, Ari Fleischer, will be having a briefing momentarily.
The Associated Press is now reporting from Kabul that there are explosions. There's anti-aircraft fire in Kabul, the capital of Afghanistan, which would indicate, Senator Edwards, that the long- anticipated U.S. action may, in fact, already have begun.
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BLITZER: And, of course, it did begin that day. It's hard to believe, 14 years later. The U.S. went in there to destroy the Taliban, to destroy al Qaeda.
If anybody would have said 14 years later that mission would still not be complete, they would have thought that that was crazy, because the U.S. defeated the Nazi empire in four years in World War II.
GARAMENDI: Well, yes, at an extraordinary cost of human lives on every side. A lot of mistakes made here, a lot of mistakes. The Russians
were there. The British were there. A lot of folks tried to subjugate Afghanistan and nobody has been successful over time. We also -- after the success of getting rid of the Taliban, we moved our attention to Iraq and left Taliban for a few years -- left Afghanistan for a few years.
And it just erupted into a huge civil war that is still going on to this day. And we're right smack in the middle of it. It's a lesson that we need to learn about not only the Middle East, but other countries.
Getting involved in these civil wars is a very dangerous and very difficult thing. Russia should have learned that in Afghanistan. Probably, we should have hired the general that ran out of Afghanistan with his tail between his legs and asked him, what happened? We didn't.
We need to understand that now Russia is in the middle of Syria and they may be sorry that they got into that mess.
BLITZER: By now, the longest war in U.S. history.
GARAMENDI: Seven hundred billion dollars.
BLITZER: In U.S. taxpayer money.
GARAMENDI: And that doesn't count for the ongoing debt.
BLITZER: Just in Afghanistan.
GARAMENDI: Just in Afghanistan.
BLITZER: And all the lives lost and the wounded warriors and all the Afghanis who have been killed as well.
GARAMENDI: Seven hundred billion dollars.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: Congressman...
GARAMENDI: Thank you.
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