June 12, 2003 Thursday
HEADLINE: Senator Byron Dorgan discusses some of the issues surrounding media ownership following his invitation to Rupert Murdoch to speak at Democratic Policy Committee meeting
Senator BYRON DORGAN (Democrat, North Dakota): Thank you. Thank you.
BORGER: Thanks for being with us.
So you brought Rupert Murdoch up to speak to Democrats, and I guess the obvious question I have to ask you is: Was he fair and balanced?
Sen. DORGAN: Well, he'd probably say he was, probably 10 times an hour. But now look, we've hadwe've invited everybody from Vice President Cheney to Erin Brockovich. Wewe inbringwe bring people in each week in the Democratic Policy Committee to meet with the Democratic Caucus, and we had a good meeting. Therthey're off-the-record meetings, but we obviously had a good meeting with Rupert Murdoch. He's aan interesting figure, and we had a lot of interesting discussions.
BORGER: Wellwell, diit was sort ofII would have to think it was a little bit of a hostile audience forfor Rupert Murdoch. Was it?
Sen. DORGAN: No, it was a fair and balanced audience.
BORGER: And you're not going to tell me what hewhat he said to you or what you...
Sen. DORGAN: Well...
BORGER: What kinds of questions are raised...
Sen. DORGAN: Look...
BORGER: ...withoutwithout giving away thethe content, if you can?
Sen. DORGAN: Every question that you might think would be raised was raised. But ityou know, these are off-the-record conversations. I was pleased to invite him and pleased that he accepted the invitation. And, you know, Ilook, I'm a big believer, and we all ought to be talking to each other. And the result of all of that, I think, is better discourse in this country.
BORGER: Well, therethere's been a lot of controversy lately over media conglomerates, and the big question for Rupert Murdoch has been whether he should be allowed to buy DishTV. Do you think he should?
Sen. DORGAN: Well, that'sthat's a matter for the FCC and the courts at this point. I'm concerned about concentration, really concerned a lot. And some of those issues were raised as well. But you know, not just Rupert, but the FCC has made a decision on ownership limits. You know, itfollowing this decision by the FCC, it will be possible for one company in the largest cities in the country to own the newspaper, three television stations, eight radio stations and the cable TV system. Boy, I don't think that's moving in the right direction; I think that's serious business.
So there are a lot of ownership issues out there that we ought to be concerned about, and that includes this issue ofof DirecTV. I think, youyou know, it oughtit ought to be scrutinized very carefully.
BORGER: I'm sorry. I did mean DirecTV.
Can youdo you believe that, in some way, that liberals have been squeezed out, or the Democratic viewpoint has been squeezed out in certain parts of this country because of media conglomerates, particularly on radio, for example?
Sen. DORGAN: Well, one company owns over 1,200 radio stations in this country.
BORGER: Is that Clear Channel that you're talking about?
Sen. DORGAN: Yes. Yes. AndI mean, itit's quite clear. Just listen to the radio and take a look at the number of hours of conservative talk vs. the number of hours of progressives and liberals and you'll see aat least a 10:1 imbalance. You know, what's the reason for that? I don't know, but III do think it'sit's of concern because, you know, this country sis inbest served, I think, by a diversity of voices and diversity of opinions, and I don't think that is always the case these days. I think we can do a lot better than we're doing now.
BORGER: Butbut what about having a free marketplace? Isn't that the way thethe marketplace just worked out? So why would you want to come in and kind of affect the free market?
Sen. DORGAN: Well, there is no free market withwith respect to television stations and radio station; those are licensed. You can't just decide tomorrow, 'Well, look, I'm going to go out and start up a TV station someplace,' or, 'I'm going to go start a radio station.' These airwaves belong to the American people, and they are licensed. And thethe prospect of getting a license means that you have to promise diversity and aa series of other things. Andand unfortunately, we don't have, I think, localism and diversity in much of our broadcasting these days. Do they serve the local areas these days, or is itis it a music sound coming out of a box someplace that's pumped a thousand miles away into your community and they're pretending to thinktoat least they want you to think they live in your community when, in fact, they don't?
BORGER: Therthere are some liberal radio hosts who say that they're not allowed to speak because they've got so many conservative owners now of the airwaves and they're losing their shows.
Sen. DORGAN: Well, we'll see. Let me tell you this. There are some really good talents out there who are progressive voices in talk radio, but they haven't been given the chance yet. They haven't been, at this point, syndicated, but we'll see. Wiwill they be given an opportunity to have the same circumstances and be syndicated just as the conservatives are? We'll see. I hope so, because that's the ultimate test, isn't it?
BORGER: Well, it is. As Marshall McLuhan used to say: 'Is it the message, or is it the medium?' We're going to have to see as this controversy continues.
Senator Byron Dorgan, chairman of the Democratic Policy Committee, thanks so much for being with us.
Sen. DORGAN: Thanks a lot.